Montana Republican leaders are mum on President Trump's threat to "nationalize" elections. Tribal leaders vow to fight Trump administration efforts to remove "woke" exhibits from national parks and monuments. Gov. Gianforte pushes for the establishment of a conservative religious club in Montana schools. And the Epstein files become an issue in Montana's congressional race.
Campaign Beat is MTPR's weekly political analysis program. MTPR's Sally Mauk is joined by Montana Free Press Managing Editor Holly Michels and UM Political Science Professor and Mansfield Center Fellow Rob Saldin.
Sally Mauk: Rob, this week President Trump floated the idea of nationalizing elections, primarily in blue states where he alleges elections have been corrupted. And by nationalizing, he means having the federal, not the state government, run the elections. He even suggested at one point having the Republican Party take over those elections. This alarmed many people on both sides of the aisle, but I've heard no response from Montana's congressional delegation or state election officials.
Rob Saldin: I haven't either, Sally. In a different context, these folks would be at a level 10 on the outrage scale over an idea like this. Certainly, if a Democrat proposed it, I'm pretty certain it would generate a response. But in this case, mum's the word, apparently. The obvious reason for that is that their principled answer is in direct conflict with Trump's wishes. It's worth noting that there is actually much that could be said on behalf of such a principled response. It would emphasize the virtues of federalism and decentralization and the potential for overreach on the part of the national government and so forth. But for many years now, we've seen that when Republican principles or Conservative principles or just plain old American principles are in tension with Trump, Trump carries the day. These folks also no doubt tell themselves, ‘Well, you know, this isn't the hill I want to die on and it's probably not going to happen anyhow. So why get crosswise with the boss?' It does seem very unlikely, in fact, that there could be a complete federal takeover of elections, but there are a lot of steps short of that where the federal government could insert itself into elections in a way that it hasn't in the past.
Sally Mauk: Holly, we also learned this week that the Trump administration wants to remove so-called "woke" signs or exhibits from some national parks, including Glacier Park and the Little Bighorn National Monument in Montana. What's their definition of offensive exhibits?
Holly Michels: This all ties back to an executive order Trump issued back in March of last year on what he called "restoring truth and sanity to American history." And now the Washington Post, like you said, is reporting that 17 national parks across the country, including Glacier and Little Bighorn, are having signs and displays removed. That's anything that would be related to climate change, environmental protection, or especially in Montana, the mistreatment of Native Americans. So in Glacier, that is said to include signs about the disappearance of glaciers because of climate change and a display about air pollution in the park. Then at Little Bighorn the Post reported that Trump is removing signs about the U.S. being hungry for gold and land and breaking promises to Native Americans, along with information about how boarding schools violently erased cultural identities and language for Native children.
Sally Mauk: Montana's Native American communities are upset about this erasure of their history, and here's what Keianna Cachora, who works at the Custer Battlefield Trading Post, told Q2 News.
Keianna Cachora: "It's just disturbing, disgusting, and it's wrong. You should not erase other people because it makes you uncomfortable."
Sally Mauk: And the Northern Cheyenne tribe, Holly, is going to fight the removal.
Holly Michels: The tribe has said in a press release it unanimously passed a resolution aimed at trying to stop these changes. The tribe is saying that federal law authorizes these memorials at the battlefield and the associated signage with them. And then also that Montana has a really robust part of our state Constitution that requires Indian Education for All, which is educating the public about things like the battle that the monument marks.
And also, Sally, up in Glacier, the Blackfeet Tribe, whose reservation borders Glacier, they've also expressed concern about changes there. The Tribal Business Council on Facebook has posted that Trump's actions mean that the Blackfeet people no longer have control over their own story, so it'd be interesting to see what the Tribe up there might do as well.
Sally Mauk: Rob, there's no coincidence this exhibit removal effort is happening in an election year.
Rob Saldin: No. And Republicans, I suspect, will be happy if these issues feature prominently in the campaign. And that's because in this cultural realm, in the state of Montana, they occupy the high ground, politically speaking. I think it's often not even necessarily that they think, you know, in this case, that removing these allegedly "woke" signs is going to provoke huge enthusiasm. Maybe a little, but probably more than that, what it does is bait the Democrats into responding in ways that many voters perceive to be just a little out of step. Just in regard to this particular case, Ryan Busse put out a pretty angry video condemning the Little Bighorn change in particular and denouncing it as racist and so forth. While there's a case that can be made for that, for a lot of people, especially those who aren't college-educated Democrats, that kind of thing just seems a bit over top. Now, for Busse and other Democrats, well, they're in a tight spot here because they feel like they have to say something. And I also certainly take them at their word that they do care deeply about Native issues and identity issues more generally, and climate change and being historically accurate and all the rest. So they feel they need to speak out, not to mention their base supporters expect them to denounce this stuff, and of course, they are trying to win a primary, but Sally, in Montana, Republicans, I suspect, they'll be happy to duke it out on this turf.
Sally Mauk: Holly Erika Kirk, the widow of Charlie Kirk and his successor as head of Turning Point USA, was at the Capitol this week to support the spread of Turning Point USA clubs at Montana high schools. Gov. Gianforte and several club members held a rally in the Capitol Rotunda to urge Montana schools to support the clubs.
Gov. Greg Gianforte: "At a time when our country is in need of God's light, there exists a great need for an organization like TPUSA to restore moral clarity, constitutional principles, and our founding values starting with our youth."
Sally Mauk: And Holly, these clubs have a clear Conservative and faith-based focus.
Holly Michels: They do, Sally. Right now, there's about 20 chapters of the high school version of Turning Point's USA clubs in Montana. They're called Club America. And like we heard Gianforte there, he's making the moral argument for these chapters. But it's also worth noting that TPUSA, under Charlie Kirk, its founder who was killed at a rally last September, the group was a really great tool in engaging young conservatives and turning them out to vote for Republican candidates. Gianforte has said that he knew Charlie Kirk for a long time. Erika Kirk, Charlie Kirk's widow, said on Fox News that Gianforte had actually known Kirk since he was 18. TP USA has seen a spike in membership since Charlie Kirk's killing, and Erika Kirk is now leading that group. She also made an appearance at this event in Montana. She spoke to high school students in a private event in the governor's reception room. Press was not allowed to attend that event, but Sally, like you noted, Erika Kirk is making a big push right now to reach out to high-school students in Montana, also other states. She said Nebraska and Indiana are next on the list trying to expand places that TPUSA has partnerships.
Sally Mauk: Rob, there seem to be no qualms on the governor's part to support an organization that has a particular political and overtly religious bent being endorsed by public schools.
Rob Saldin: No, no qualms. Quite the opposite, a lot of enthusiasm. Sally, this issue of religion in the public sphere has been something that we've argued about and contested since the founding of the country. And there have been significant shifts over time. A lot of that has to do with the ambiguous language in the Constitution. We know that the government can't establish a religion. What exactly does the establishment of a religion actually mean in practice? For some, it means any connection whatsoever between government and religion is a no-go. So, no mention of God in school, Big Mountain Jesus has to come down, and so forth. But others look at that same language and say the secular side takes it way too far. They contend that you can do all sorts of things in the public sphere that fall well short of imposing a state religion. And of course, there's a free exercise clause too. So, there's lots of gray areas here. And over the last few generations, the center of gravity on these matters had moved quite far in the secular direction. But more recently, we do seem to have had another swing in which the secular side is on the defensive now. And those who would like to see more religion in the public sphere have the wind at their backs very much including Turning Point.
Sally Mauk: Finally, Holly, one of the many scandals involving the Epstein files touched Montana this week with the disclosure that prominent Montana paleontologist Jack Horner was mentioned in the files.
Holly Michels: He was Sally. In this most recent dump, there were a group of emails that had Horner's name on them. In one, Horner would thank Epstein and what he called "The girls" for a visit to an oceanfront Epstein property. In another email, Horner talks about visiting a ranch that Epstein owned in 2012 for a paleontology tour. And another Horner is trying to get Epstein to fund his Dino Chicken project, which is when he tried to recreate dinosaurs by genetically manipulating chicken embryos. After those initial stories came out, Horner, who was curator at Museum of the Rockies in Bozeman for a long time, posted a statement to social media saying that at the time he was interacting with Epstein and those around him, he was unaware of the sex trafficking Epstein was involved in. He said that the girls he was referring to in those emails were four college students, and that he didn't witness anything that he deemed weird, inappropriate, or out of the ordinary with those women and Epstein. Horner, of course, about a decade ago, made news by saying he was let go from Museum of the Rockies, which he ran for nearly 35 years for his marriage to a 19-year-old undergrad when he was about 70.
Sally Mauk: Rob, Democrats plan to make the Epstein files a campaign issue, and here's a video put out by western district congressional candidate Russell Cleveland that starts with Congressman Ryan Zinke commenting on the files, followed by Cleveland and his wife.
Rep Ryan Zinke: "The bottom line is I don't believe there's a secret list. I don't believe that there's this huge volume of information that is somehow going to indict anybody."
Kate Cleveland: "In our family, we protect girls from pedophiles, and we believe in putting them in jail."
Russ Cleveland: "And we believe women. Ryan Zinke's wrong. Pam Bondi is not only a disaster for women, but also our country and for all Montanans. This is one more reason that Ryan Zinke needs to go."
Sally Mauk: The Epstein files, Rob, are a problem for Republican candidates.
Rob Saldin: Absolutely, Sally. That quote from Zinke sure didn't age well. More generally, Democrats are going to make this a campaign issue for sure. It's a horrific episode, and Trump is a central figure in it. And in our nationalized political environment, that's just way too good to pass up. This issue also makes things very awkward for Republicans because they're cross-pressured on it. A lot of MAGA adherents think the Epstein affair is a very big deal. In fact, it's one of the issues they care about the most. And yet Trump wants to downplay it. So that's quite awkward for the Republican coalition, and I would expect Democrats to continue trying to exploit that.
Sally Mauk: Well, lastly, and sadly, we have to mention this is Holly's last show. She's leaving journalism for a while. Holly, I know I speak not just for myself, but also for listeners that we're going to miss you like crazy. You've been a terrific colleague.
Holly Michels: Thanks, Sally. I'm going to miss you and Rob too, quite a bit. I've done this for about a decade covering politics, and one of my favorite parts of this job is being able to talk with you both every week. Also, a major thanks to Edward O'Brien. I'm a notably not-loud person, and Ed is the reason that I think everyone can hear me every week on this show. And also, to the listeners, I just wanted to say a huge amount of thanks and gratefulness. Doing the show, I've gotten some of the most interesting and thoughtful responses and interactions from people who hear it. That's what makes this job matter, so thank you guys all very much.
Sally Mauk: Well, thank you again, Holly, and we want to let our listeners know that Seaborn Larson of Lee Newspaper's State Capitol Bureau will be Holly's replacement starting next week. Till then, Holly and Rob, thanks.
Holly Michels: Thanks, Sally.
Rob Saldin: Thanks, Sally, and thank you, Holly. We're going to miss you.
Campaign Beat is MTPR's weekly political analysis program. MTPR's Sally Mauk is joined by Montana Free Press Managing Editor Holly Michels and UM Political Science Professor and Mansfield Center Fellow Rob Saldin. Tune in on-air Fridays at 5:45 p.m. during All Things Considered, or Saturdays at 9:45 a.m., before Weekend Edition. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
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