"My fellow citizens are letting me know that they do not care about anyone besides themselves. How can I forgive my fellow Montanans after they told me I didn't matter for the last two years?"
A few weeks ago, Montana Public Radio asked what you, our listeners, wanted to learn as we head into year three of the COVID-19 pandemic. One of those questions was about forgiveness.
The listener said they were at high risk for serious complications from the virus and had been mostly isolated for the past two years. They felt like other people put them in danger by not wearing masks or getting vaccinated.
The listener asked us how can they forgive their fellow Montanans when it feels like some don't care about how their actions can impact high-risk people?
For an answer to that question, we turn to Veronica Johnson, who teaches a class at the University of Montana titled "Forgiveness and Reconciliation."
Thanks for joining us, Veronica.
Veronica Johnson Thank you for having me.
Freddy Monares I want to start out by reading our listener's question and let you answer it. "My fellow citizens are letting me know that they do not care about anyone besides themselves. How can I forgive my fellow Montanans after they told me I didn't matter for the last two years?"
Veronica Johnson That's such a good question, Freddy, and I think it's a hard question to answer because as I've been thinking about this question over the last several days since you asked me to do this interview, I think about, of course, my own perspective on this whole pandemic and then how I can try to understand other people's perspectives. And what I've really come to realize is that the choices that we make are all about the values that we hold. And when I think more deeply about that, the choices that I might have made to wear a mask, to get vaccinated, were about my own values, my own beliefs, what I believe to be true. And I think there's so many mixed messages these days in the media about what's true, about what we should believe. And when we do believe a certain way, the media tailors itself, especially social media, to only giving us that information, so our truth then becomes reinforced over and over and over again, which helps us feel better about what we believe because we don't, unless we really seek it, we're not given alternative information.
So I think forgiveness — and I can talk more about forgiveness specifically — but that question, when I think about forgiving people for decisions that they've made or behaviors that they're displaying that I might think are putting me in danger, I think about their truth and their values, and I might perceive what they do as putting me in danger. But their truth is not the same as mine, and I don't believe that other people intentionally were putting other people in harm's way. I believe in the goodness of people, primarily. You know, I think we all have the capacity for good and bad. But I think that people largely were not intentionally putting other people in harm's way. It's just that we have different values and beliefs.
Those beliefs were supported by the things that we were exposing ourselves to in the media. Whether we realized it or not, they were being fed to us. And I might perceive someone as putting me in danger, but I don't believe that that was their perception. So I kind of have to look behind the behavior to understand what are the values and beliefs that drive a person's behavior. And whether I agree with them or not, values are good, you know, people's values are generally good and they generally act with good intention.
Freddy Monares Just to kind of follow up on that, do you mean like, everybody kind of took their risk assessment and made that decision to say, 'OK, I still need to wear a mask or I don't need to wear a mask anymore?' Is that sort of fair to kind of sum up what you said?
Veronica Johnson I think so. I think if I'm choosing to wear a mask and get vaccinated, I'm making that choice because of what I believe to be true and what I believe I need to do to protect myself. And if I'm choosing not to wear a mask and not to get vaccinated, I'm acting in accordance with what I believe to be true. And maybe I don't sense the same sort of need to protect myself in that way. Maybe I don't see the same danger that someone else would see who makes a different choice.
Freddy Monares That kind of falls nicely into my next question. Do we even need to forgive? People get angry all the times and sometimes for good reason.
Veronica Johnson Well, I would never tell someone that they need to forgive, because I think that when we feel forced to forgive or we feel like we should forgive, that can lead to a sense of shame when we don't feel like we're able to, or it's really difficult to. So in my class about forgiveness and reconciliation, I never tell students, "You have to forgive." In fact, I tell them, "You don't have to forgive." And I don't think we're really capable of forgiving unless we feel ready to. And that readiness has so much to do with, like I — the reasons why we might forgive, which could be to repair our relationship, it could be to reconcile and it could be because I don't want to deal with this anger and resentment and basically turmoil that I'm experiencing in my life right now. I think what motivates most people to forgive is just to be able to let go of some of what they're struggling with and be able to move on, whether or not it involves the other person that they're angry with or who they perceive as having harmed them.
"I might perceive someone as putting me in danger, but I don't believe that that was their perception. So I kind of have to look behind the behavior to understand what are the values and beliefs that drive a person's behavior."Prof. Veronica Johnson
Freddy Monares Yeah. And one of the things this person said was they've become bitter, resentful and angry during that time. How do we deal with those emotions?
Veronica Johnson Lots of deep breathing. I think that breathing is one of our most underutilized skills. But I think we have to acknowledge those feelings, and those feelings are a reflection of our values. So again, like this, our values run really deep. And when we have a reaction to someone else, something that they did, something that they believe, it's mostly because it's — we perceive it as being different from what we believe to be our deeply held values. And nobody can take those away from us. I think that that bitterness and anger, some of that can come from staying in a place of 'I'm going to hold true because if I even expose myself to somebody else's beliefs or values, then somehow my own are compromised.' And I think we can give ourselves some comfort in knowing that we don't have to give up our values. Nobody can take those away from us. But seeking understanding from someone whose perspectives are different from ours can maybe show us that our values probably are not that different. It's just that they inform our behavior in different ways.
So, I think some deep breaths and I think acknowledging those emotions and allowing them to really inform us about what our values are and that that's OK, that we can hold true to those values and by exposing ourselves to others' beliefs and opinions and values doesn't need to lead us to feel like we have to change our own.
Freddy Monares This person doesn't name one person they're mad at. It's a group of people: Montana citizens. How can someone address these feelings when they're directed at a group or business or larger social policy even?
Veronica Johnson Yeah, I think that's such a great question, and I'm a counselor — educator and a counselor. And so part of what we do, like part of our professional identity, is advocacy. So I think we have to be able to acknowledge systems that we are able to effect change and then systems that we aren't able to effect change. So if I'm angry at the government or I'm angry at a group or an organization, I might look for positive ways where I can engage myself in the community or engage myself in advocacy efforts that would help to create something productive from that anger because I have to acknowledge the things that I can control and the things that I can't control. And I think so much in the last two years, we've — all of us have just faced a lot of really horrible situations that we had no control over. So I think bringing it back to a two-column list of like, what do I have control over in my life and what don't I have control over and then focus on the things that we can effect change or influence or control so that we feel like we're doing something productive with that anger.
Freddy Monares Like what?
Veronica Johnson Yeah. I mean, it could be donating money to causes that we believe in. It could be joining organizations that we feel like are doing good work in our community. It could be showing up to a march or a rally that we believe in. It could be starting a gratitude journal. It could be starting a meditation practice. I mean, it can be really small, like daily things that we feel like help to improve our wellness. And it can be more broad, like joining an organization and becoming a part of a movement that I believe in. It can be, you know, being a mentor or a leader towards an effort that I believe in. It can be small and it can be big. It really depends on how much energy we want to put into it and how big of an effect we want to have.
"I just think that we have to remember that ... we can listen to understand other people without our own values and beliefs being compromised. And if we really want to understand, then we'll probably find in the long run that our values aren't that different. It's just that they inform our behavior in different ways."Prof. Veronica Johnson
Freddy Monares Is there any other advice you want to share with our listeners about forgiving or coming to terms with our differences during the pandemic?
Veronica Johnson I think, you know, like I would tell my students, it's — I know a lot about forgiveness, but that doesn't make it easy. And so I think sometimes just letting ourselves off the hook from any pressure that we might feel to force the forgiveness process, that's the best piece of advice that I can give, because I think forgiveness can happen in so many different ways, and there's so much research about, like, processes of forgiveness that people might engage in. And if you want to work on it and you want to choose forgiveness, great. That's awesome. Like, there's a lot of helpful information out there and self-help books and classes you can take at the University of Montana. But I think I would definitely just say let the pressure off because we can't really forgive until we're ready.
And I think if there's a second piece of advice that I would give, it would be "listen to understand." I know that there have been so many rifts that have happened between loved ones over the course of the last two years. And it's easy to keep yourself separate from people who you don't care about. But there are people, there are relationships that have been damaged as a result of the pandemic and political leanings. And I just think that we have to remember that, one, we're only responsible for our own behavior. And two, we can listen to understand other people without our own values and beliefs being compromised. And if we really want to understand, then we'll probably find in the long run that our values aren't that different. It's just that they inform our behavior in different ways.
Freddy Monares Veronica Johnson teaches a class titled "Forgiveness and Reconciliation" at the University of Montana. Veronica, thank you so much. I feel like I've learned a lot, and I feel so much better after talking to you.
Veronica Johnson Thank you so much.
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Freddy Monares produced this story as part of the America Amplified initiative using community engagement to inform and strengthen local, regional and national journalism. America Amplified is a public media initiative funded by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
