“Grounding” is an independent production of Montana Public Radio's arts and culture team.
In 2021, Grounding host Sarah Aronson was on a family vacation. She saw a dead fish belly up in Lake Superior and it haunted the family’s swims for the rest of the week.
“We couldn’t put it on the beach and we couldn't throw it out far enough. It just kept washing up into our swimming area. And I remember asking my mother-in-law, ‘Is Lake Superior getting warmer?’ And she said to me, matter of fact, ‘You saw one dead fish and you think something’s going on with the lakes?’”
Aronson returned home to look up data on Lake Superior, and it turned out, it was getting warmer. Sometimes, she said, we defend against what we know is true in order to just keep enjoying our summer vacations.
That is the myth of apathy.
Renee Lertzman, one of this episode’s guests, is an expert on the myth of apathy as it relates to climate change. In a paper she wrote, Lertzman said apathy is presumed when the public doesn’t respond adequately to efforts to inform, cajole, or pressure them to change their behaviors in light of different social problems, including climate change.
“And what that often leads to is people resorting to their defense mechanisms…to basically handle it so we can be functional in the world,” Lertzman said of apathy. “And what that might look like and show up like is, ‘I don't care, this isn’t important.’”
And apathy can be even easier to succumb to if one doesn’t have the language to explain how they’re feeling.
Panu Pihkala, another guest in this episode, talks to Aronson about the Finnish language and the usefulness of being able to name our feelings. In particular, Aronson and Pihkala discuss one of Aronson’s new favorite Finnish words: “lumiahdistus,” or winter melancholy.
“It’s like the feeling of not being sure if the snow is going to fall or if it’s going to leave prematurely,” Aronson said. “And I know that since I’ve been living in Montana the last ten or so years, I’ve been feeling a lot of snow anxiety.”
In this episode:
Renee Lertzman (above left) is an expert in the myth of apathy as it relates to climate change. She is an advisor, strategist, and trainer, known for her pioneering work in bridging psychology with change-making on the biggest issues facing our planet. In this episode, she explains to host Sarah Aronson how she landed on the myth of apathy concept, and tells Aronson her solution to the polycrisis, which involves tying psychology and climate change more closely in common conversations.
Panu Pihkala, from the University of Helsinki, is an expert in interdisciplinary eco-emotion research. He is also an adjunct professor of environmental theology at the University of Helsinki and a researcher in HELSUS Sustainability Science Institute. Pihkala is currently one of the world’s most cited eco-anxiety researchers. Pihkala serves as an advisor to many practical projects on eco-emotions, and hosts the podcast Climate Change and Happiness together with Dr. Thomas Doherty. He has been awarded several prizes in Finland for his work.
Listen to episode two, “So... Where’s the snow?” via the link above, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.
