MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
We've reached one of Kilmar Abrego Garcia's attorneys, Simon Sandoval-Moshenberg, and he's with us now. Good morning. Thank you for joining us.
SIMON SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: Good morning. Great to be here.
MARTIN: Have you been able to connect with your client since his release? How's he doing?
SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: Yeah. We met last night when he came home to see his family, his wife, his child. He's been behind bars in some form of prison or detention center since March. So it was an extremely emotional reunion for him, for them, for everyone.
MARTIN: So this court case, as we've been reporting, has taken many twists and turns. One of the fights now is over where he might go next. The administration has tried to deport him to Uganda and Liberia, among other countries. He said that he would agree to go to Costa Rica. The judge ruled there is not a lawful removal order to deport him at all. So is Mr. Abrego Garcia still willing to go to Costa Rica, or is the goal now to stay in the U.S.?
SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: Well, he's got a lot of decisions to make. I mean, that's exactly right, that he's been willing to go to Costa Rica all along, and the government has refused to deport him there, even though Costa Rica offered him refugee status. And the judge used that as one of the two reasons to show that his rights have been violated, that the government was not actually keeping him detained in order to deport him, but rather has been keeping him detained in order to keep him locked up. But now, if he wants, he's got an open runway to apply for asylum in the United States. He's got a U.S. citizen spouse and child. He's got a lot of different migration options if he wants. It's really going to be up to him.
MARTIN: So Trisha McLaughlin, the Department of Homeland Security's assistant secretary for public affairs, posted on social media that, quote, "this order lacks any valid legal basis, and we will continue to fight this tooth and nail in the courts," unquote. How do you understand that? Do you interpret that to mean that the federal government is still trying to remove him from the country, specifically to send him to an African country?
SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: Yeah. I really wish that they'd sort of leave well enough alone at this point. This family has suffered enough. But let's be honest here, they're not going to leave well enough alone. They're not going to leave him alone. They're going to keep throwing the full weight of government at him. But when push comes to shove, Judge Xinis goes through page after page after page of evidence of the government's unconstitutional intent, of the government's lack of evidence. So I really do think that her decision is strong, and it's going to stand up on appeal if they choose to appeal.
MARTIN: So your client is involved in three different cases right now. There's a civil case in Maryland where you're challenging his deportation. There's a criminal case in Tennessee where the government has accused him of human smuggling and a petition for asylum in immigration court. As briefly as you can, where do these cases stand now?
SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: Well, the criminal case is set for trial in late July. In the civil case in Maryland, late last night, we asked for another order from the judge barring his re-arrest by ICE for a brief period of time so that we can get a hearing scheduled. And that was just granted very early this morning. So he'll have the opportunity to reapply for asylum now as a result of the judge in Maryland's decision if he chooses to do that. That's going to be up to him.
MARTIN: So before we let you go, I mean, I think it is fair to say that Mr. Abrego Garcia's case is kind of like a Rorschach test. Clearly, the administration's interest in this particular case says that it means a lot to them. And it means a lot to people watching the case. The people who support Mr. Abrego Garcia and the position that he's in seem to see it one way, and supporters of President Trump seem to see it another way. How do you see it?
SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: I don't even see it as being about immigration. I think it's about something more fundamental, which is the battle between power and law, right? I mean, the Trump administration has tried to use this case to stand for the principle that they get to do whatever they want whenever they want. And the ruling out of the court in Maryland yesterday is at least one victory for law over power and showing that laws do matter. And when the government breaks laws, they need to be held to consequences, just like when people break laws.
MARTIN: Simon Sandoval-Moshenberg, thank you so much for joining us.
SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG: Good to be here this morning. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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