SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Raja, who teaches philosophy to high schoolers, has lived through Beirut's civil wars and strife, a kidnapping, the banking collapse, COVID and the great port explosion. But his most vexing test may be sharing his apartment with his 82-year-old, sharp-tongued, dope-smoking and utterly charming mother, Zalfa, of whom he writes that, deciphering her was a feat that would surely have flummoxed Hercules - my mother as the unthinkably impossible 13th task.
"The True True Story Of Raja The Gullible (And His Mother)" is the new novel from Rabih Alameddine. He joins us in our studios. Thanks so much for being with us.
RABIH ALAMEDDINE: Thank you so much for having me.
SIMON: Why does Raja call himself the gullible, the imbecile, the neurotic clown, the dimwit?
ALAMEDDINE: Self-deprecation, for the most part. It is how he sees himself. That's not to say that, you know, he is not more than that, but it's how he sees himself. And he uses that as, shall we say, a defense mechanism, for lack of a better word - something that keeps him sane.
SIMON: And I have to ask you about a phrase that he and his mother bark back and forth. We've got to be careful with it.
ALAMEDDINE: Yes. Yes, of course.
SIMON: You know what I'm talking about. But it's said with affection, isn't it?
ALAMEDDINE: Yes. Depending on the intonation, it could imply many, many things. But it is quite common and something that, yes, even my mother says to me.
SIMON: Your mother says that?
ALAMEDDINE: Oh, yes.
SIMON: Let's try and set up that phrase, if you could tell us.
ALAMEDDINE: OK.
SIMON: Let's ask you to read something from the book so we understand the phrase.
ALAMEDDINE: OK. The first time it appears, the mother is speaking.
(Reading) You're in extreme middle age, she said. You're not allowed to be old. That would make me ancient. But you are ancient. [Expletive] your mother. Her favorite expression, which always sounded off coming from her, even after years of hearing it. Anyone else saying it barely registered. But, of course, my mother saying it to me was always strange.
SIMON: I shouldn't laugh, but that's hilarious.
ALAMEDDINE: Oh, God, yes. Are you kidding? That's the whole point. You should laugh.
SIMON: Tell us about Zalfa's relationship with Madame Taweel.
ALAMEDDINE: That's an interesting relationship. It's primarily an intimate relationship of two older women who found at a late stage in life a partner in crime (laughter).
SIMON: And that's - yeah, that's Madame Taweel's - what do we say? - vocation.
ALAMEDDINE: It's funny because I said partner in crime not thinking about it, but, yes, it's a partner in crime. She's a - what we call a generator mafia don. She runs generators, and she sells and distributes generators. And that is a booming business in Lebanon because there is absolutely no electricity. And she's one of the best at it.
SIMON: What do they find in each other?
ALAMEDDINE: You know, one of the things that was interesting to me about this book is the various, shall we say, loving relationships or the various intimacies in the book. I'm one of those who believes that we need different kinds of intimacies as humans. And one of the most important is somebody to listen to us, no matter what we're talking about. And that is a biggie.
And Raja, the main narrator, says at one point that he is his mother's confidant, but he's not sort of the complete confidant that she needs. She needs somebody who will listen to everything that she has to say. The way I look at it is it's about seeing someone completely, or close to completely. And that's what they found in each other. Whereas, no matter what Raja and his mother - however close their relationship is, it's still never complete because it's a mother-and-son relationship.
SIMON: I have to ask - born in Amman to Lebanese Druze parents.
ALAMEDDINE: Mm-hm.
SIMON: I gather you grew up in Kuwait and Lebanon. How much of this is drawn from your own family life experience?
ALAMEDDINE: Well, everything I've ever written is drawn from my family life and experience. It's not a direct reflection. Like, the mother in the book is not much like my mother. However - sorry, I'll - it's quite emotional, but...
SIMON: Yeah, sure.
ALAMEDDINE: ...The reason the mother is such a big thing in that book is because of my mother and what she's going through right now. So, yes, that affects it and influences, but everything I do, everything I think about influences my novel. You know, I also played soccer for 50 years. Everything I do influences my writing.
SIMON: Were you a striker or a goalie?
ALAMEDDINE: My primary position was on the bench, but...
SIMON: (Laughter). Yeah.
ALAMEDDINE: I played midfield for the longest time, yes.
SIMON: Yeah.
ALAMEDDINE: The beauty of being a novelist is that everything that comes across this insane brain of mine just goes into the novel. So yes, of course it influences, but I've never written directly about me.
SIMON: Your mother's going through a tough period now?
ALAMEDDINE: Yes. My mother is 84, and she's - her health is wonderful. She's just losing her memory, and it's difficult.
SIMON: The chronology in the story you tell here goes back and forth over decades. You write at one point, a tale has many tales and many heads, particularly if it's true. Like life, it is a river with many branches, rivulets and creeks. How hard is it to tell a story that way? How do you keep track of it?
ALAMEDDINE: It is hard, but in my mind, this is how we tell stories. A lot of people, a lot of wonderful writers, they separate writing from storytelling in some ways. They - the way that they would tell a story would be different than when you write it. I think it's very different, but at the same time, it has a lot in common. And the way that I tell stories is usually the way that I write. And I have never told a story going from, you know, point A to point B. There's always many digressions going back and forth and up and down and sideways.
So I usually say there are many kinds of writing, but we can divide them into - you know, some writing is like building a house one brick at a time. You know, you put this here, you put that here, and then you build this whole house. And a lot of, say, 19th century novels are that way, and a lot of great novels are that way. I prefer, for me, novels that are more like threads, going this way and that. And what you end up with is not a house but a carpet - a nice Persian carpet. All these threads going in different ways, and you can follow this thread to go to this. But in the end, it all comes together.
SIMON: I'm going to be quoting that.
ALAMEDDINE: Please. Please do.
SIMON: So much of the back-and-forth between mother and son and crime boss and...
ALAMEDDINE: (Laughter).
SIMON: ...Her friend, the mother, and so much more in this novel makes us laugh.
ALAMEDDINE: Yes.
SIMON: That's OK?
ALAMEDDINE: Absolutely. You know, a lot of the trouble, I think, with the world is that we're too earnest. If we're unable to laugh at the world, to laugh at ourselves, that's a sad life. You know, it's like, seriously, how can you look at what's happening in the world? How can I look at what's happening in Washington, D.C., as we speak? How do we deal with it, if not just make fun of it and laugh about it? The world is silly. I think that we can reach more people through humor than we can through - I don't know what to call it - portentousness?
SIMON: That's a good one.
ALAMEDDINE: Yeah. It's like, oh, my God, this is going to happen. Yeah, it'll happen. That doesn't mean that - you know, obviously it doesn't mean that it's not serious. Obviously it doesn't mean that we shouldn't be resisting, or fighting or whatever you want to call it. But if you're not having a good time as you're doing it, it's a problem. Who was it that said, you know, if the revolution has no dance - something to the effect of, if the revolution doesn't have dancing in it, I want out.
SIMON: "The True True Story Of Raja The Gullible (And His Mother)" is the new novel from Rabih Alameddine. Thank you so much for being with us.
ALAMEDDINE: Thank you so much for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
