SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
East Washington Heights Baptist Church has roots in Southeast D.C. that date back to the 1890s. Kip Banks has been the pastor there for more than two decades.
KIP BANKS: I wanted to pastor a church in the South, but it didn't work out. So God sent me to Alabama Avenue in Southeast D.C.
(LAUGHTER)
SIMON: Oh, my gosh.
BANKS: But just to serve the people. There's so many needs here in east Washington.
SIMON: He believes service is at the core of his church's spiritual mission. They run a food bank and have hosted several schools. And in Ward 7 of the city, which has had a high crime rate, his church has sometimes also shown up in the robbery statistics.
BANKS: We've had several break-ins over the years, and so, you know, crime is a part of - just a part of living in Washington, D.C. It's not uncommon to have crime. For us, it's really a matter of how you react to crime. And so earlier this year, in March, there was a break into our educational wing, and I'm going to show you where it took place.
(SOUNDBITE OF FOOTSTEPS)
BANKS: And they broke in downstairs, and they came up, and they stole a couple of laptops and other equipment from this room here. It was a fully functioning classroom. We actually have cameras, and so we were able to see the persons who...
SIMON: Yeah.
BANKS: ...Broke in.
SIMON: Oh, my. Do you know who they are?
BANKS: No. Now, we've had other break-ins as well.
SIMON: Yeah.
BANKS: We had one break-in where young men broke in, and they got into communion supplies.
SIMON: Communion supplies, like wafers and...
BANKS: Yes, exactly. Through the forgiveness...
SIMON: ...Any wine?
BANKS: Well, we use grape juice but (laughter)...
SIMON: Oh, I'm sorry. The Irish Catholic side of my family, that side.
BANKS: Amen. Amen.
SIMON: Grape juice.
BANKS: And so they broke in, and they vandalized the church. And it was on the news. And they were interviewing the church members, and they said, are you guys upset? We said, no, we're not upset. We love the community. And lo and behold, a young lady saw what we said, and she said, that's the kind of church I want to belong to...
SIMON: Oh, my gosh.
BANKS: ...A church that has compassion for the community.
SIMON: Yeah.
BANKS: And so she, indeed, bought a house in the community. She joined the church and met a young man, and now they have three little boys (laughter).
SIMON: Oh, my gosh.
BANKS: Good comes out of evil. And for us, it's all in how you treat evil, as evil being a part of life, or is evil an end-of-life occurrence? When for us, it is not. Evil is a reality...
SIMON: Yeah.
BANKS: ...And we have to manage it, as well, with crime.
SIMON: President Trump has deployed the National Guard to D.C., along with other federal agencies, to crack down on crime. We spoke with Pastor Banks about the situation, along with two of his congregants, Legrand Baldwin (ph) and his wife, Vassar Baldwin (ph). The pastor said crime was already down well before the troops arrived.
BANKS: Here at the East Washington Heights Baptist Church, we have a daily prayer group at 7 a.m. every morning, and we pray about most of the crime that happens in the community. When there's a homicide, we pray about that. We pray for the people who are victims of the homicide. We pray for the persons committing the crime. And lo and behold, for the past year, we've been praying less about murders happening in the city 'cause crime has gone down. But in spite of that, the president declared that there was an emergency and a need for National Guard troops to patrol the streets of Washington, D.C. And all of the members that I know, none of them feel safer because of the call of the National Guard troops. If anything, it's the exact opposite.
SIMON: What do your parishioners say to you?
BANKS: They are not happy. They are burdened. They are troubled. Lifestyles have changed. For example, sadly, in this neighborhood, we don't have the best restaurants, so we have to go across the river to dine. And they want to go across the river, but they're scared to go across because they don't want to encounter troops. Not only that, members of my church, they have compassion for the least, the lost and left behind. They also are concerned about even ordering DoorDash or Uber Eats because they've seen the accounts where DoorDash drivers and Uber Eats drivers have been taken away by ICE. Parents are upset. They're concerned about young Black men and young Black women, but young Black men in particular, if they'll be targeted. Just members are upset on a number of fronts.
SIMON: The mayor of Washington, D.C., Muriel Bowser, who has not been a colleague - ally of President Trump in the past, said this week, she applauded additional law enforcement sources. She said that carjackings are down by 87%, and crime overall is down 15%.
BANKS: There is a difference between policing and military occupation. There's a philosophy of how to deal with crime. It's a neighborhood philosophy where you get to know people. You get to understand and what they're going through. And in particular, as a church, we subscribe to the beloved community, which is described in Acts 2, where all people have food to eat, and all people have shelter, no matter what background, no matter what color. They all are loved. And this military occupation is hindering that. People don't feel safe.
SIMON: Let me turn to our couple that's here, if we can. How are you feeling, both of you?
LEGRAND BALDWIN: Honestly, I'm feeling pain and anguish. And I feel that because I think this is selective overreach in terms of putting the military here. And I'm speaking as a veteran. I know that veterans were not trained to do the job that has been thrusted upon them. The military is put in a role now that should be left to municipal policing.
SIMON: Have you felt prevented from doing something? Have you held yourself back from doing something? Have you been stopped by a law enforcement officer from doing anything?
L BALDWIN: I haven't been stopped, but I have a son who has mental challenges, and I worry about him every day. Do you have your ID or something? I don't have my ID on me. I see him. I worry about him.
VASSAR BALDWIN: I just want to say, I think if Trump were so concerned about safety, why did he allow them to take a billion dollars away from the mayor's budget? The president has asked for dollars to beautify Washington, D.C., to make it a beautiful city. But it's my prayer that he would restore that 1 billion that he took from the mayor's budget so that she can hire more police officers, which are needed. And I think crime would really go down then.
L BALDWIN: You cannot deny that there has been a reduction in terms of the crime. But if you don't erase the causes of crime, they're going to go back up.
V BALDWIN: And back again to the mayor, I think she's done a fantastic job considering what she has to work with. She has to be very careful with what she says because things can turn on her in a minute. She has to walk a thin line. Think about it, you know? She has no control. This man is controlling everything. So what are you going to say? Oh, Mr. Trump, I'm not pleased with what you're doing. I need you to leave. And I said it, blah, blah, blah. That's what you think would happen?
SIMON: It's necessary, as we sit here in a church, to note that on Wednesday of this week, on the first day of school, there was a shooting in a church - children. And, of course, we have seen other shootings in churches and synagogues. I just wonder what your feelings are now, Pastor.
BANKS: Yes, certainly, very disheartened by what happened in Minneapolis, and our prayers are with those there. And there actually is a linkage between what happened and policing and crime. And that's one of the reasons, again, why we're so concerned about this order to deploy National Guard here in the nation's capital. It's costing a million dollars a day. And one of the outcomes from the COVID-19 pandemic has been an increase in mental illness. And so if we really want to tackle crime, you've got to have resources to address mental wellness.
And so when you talk about Trump, there's a larger issue, and the larger issue is what is happening with the average, everyday American. Yes, we passed what he called the big, beautiful bill. I call it the big, ugly bill. In that bill, food stamps are being cut. Medicaid is being cut. Poverty is going to increase. And so what I'm saying, overall, is that it is a compassion issue. And for me, I love the Statue of Liberty - you know, what it says. You know, give me, you know, your poor. Give me, your tired, your masses. That's what America is.
SIMON: Huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
BANKS: Yes.
SIMON: Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me. I lift my light.
BANKS: That's what makes America great, to help every person in our society and not just those who are at the top.
SIMON: Pastor Kip Banks, Legrand and Vassar Baldwin of East Washington Heights Baptist Church in Ward 7 in Washington, D.C.
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