A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
When it comes to the summit between President Trump and President Putin, Ukrainians have been repeating the motto, not about us, without us. Now, to understand how they see their options for ending the war, I spoke to Yaroslav Hrytsak. He's a historian at Ukrainian Catholic University in Lviv.
YAROSLAV HRYTSAK: We don't expect any kind of quick solution. So - more so, we don't have - expect anything from this meeting in Alaska. We think it's a good to have a set of negotiations, but we don't expect that this may lead some kind of the sustainable peace.
MARTÍNEZ: So you have no hope at all that once this weekend is through, that there will be some kind of path forward?
YAROSLAV HRYTSAK: So far, the positions of Ukraine and Russia - they're irreconcilable. We don't see whether Trump has any kind of leverage to bring these position closer to each other.
MARTÍNEZ: One of those irreconcilable issues that Russia and Ukraine say must be resolved before peace can be even discussed is territory. Russia wants all the Ukrainian regions it currently occupies. Ukraine wants that land returned. That includes the Crimean Peninsula. It was annexed in 2014, but Professor Hrytsak notes a middle ground has been discussed among Ukrainians. It's an arrangement that a slight majority of Ukrainians said they might be willing to accept, according to polling from the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology. Hrytsak says it would involve Russia keeping control of land it already occupies, temporarily and without legal recognition from Ukraine and the West. In return, Ukraine would get security guarantees from the U.S. and Europe and a move toward EU membership.
YAROSLAV HRYTSAK: But the most important issue is not territories. The most important issues are guarantees. And so far, we don't see any kind of will, neither on American side nor, more so, on Russian side, to provide these guarantees.
MARTÍNEZ: So would there be a scenario where if the land that has already been annexed by Russia - if Ukraine decides to somehow allow that to stay as it is, is that something, do you think, most Ukrainians could accept?
YAROSLAV HRYTSAK: Yes, yes, but this is just for a while - for a while until Putin is still at the top of the Russian government. But basically, the issue is, yes, we are open to these kind of concessions, but provided there'll be guarantees for Ukrainian security.
MARTÍNEZ: That same poll also found that a permanent land swap with Russia would be unpopular with Ukrainians. That's an idea President Trump has floated. Hrytsak says it would also be illegal under the Ukrainian Constitution unless the public voted to approve it. Now, that makes it a nonstarter for Ukraine's president.
YAROSLAV HRYTSAK: Zelenskyy's very much dependent on the public opinion. And public opinion is very strict about that. And then again, here in this case, Zelenskyy and most of the Ukrainians - they are on the same page and talk in the same voice. We want to have sustainable peace. And so far, we don't see that any kind negotiations between Trump and Putin may lead to some kind sustainable peace.
MARTÍNEZ: One last thing. Do you think that right now Ukraine really has hardly any control over their short- or long-term outcome at this point?
YAROSLAV HRYTSAK: Let's put it in simple terms. I'm talking as historian. This is war of attrition, and war attrition boils down to resources. If Ukraine would be left alone against Russia, they have no chances because of Russia has much more resources. But if Ukraine would have access to Western resources, Russia has no chances to stand against united front of Ukraine and West. We don't really separate Ukrainian position from the West position. And this is really one breakthrough on the part of Ukraine, is that European Union talks under one whole voice and is very much supportive on Ukraine. We wish very much that Washington would join this choir, but so far, it's not a reality.
MARTÍNEZ: Yaroslav Hrytsak is a historian at Ukrainian Catholic University. Yaroslav, thank you very much.
YAROSLAV HRYTSAK: Thank you. It's my pleasure.
(SOUNDBITE OF CHARLES BRADLEY SONG, "THE WORLD (IS GOING UP IN FLAMES)") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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