MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
And I'm Mary Louise Kelly in Washington, where a familiar story is playing out - a member of Congress accused of using his or her power to intimidate or pressure a staffer, someone with less standing, less power. The specific story this time, California Democrat Eric Swalwell who, until last night, was running for governor of California - he's accused of sexual misconduct by multiple former staffers. NPR has not independently confirmed these allegations. The congressman denies it. But late this afternoon, he announced in a post on X that he was resigning his seat in Congress because, quote, "it's wrong for my constituents to have me distracted from my duties." Swalwell is far from the first member of Congress to face accusations of sexual misconduct.
Almost eight years ago, PBS NewsHour congressional correspondent Lisa Desjardins reported on patterns of abuse in Congress and spoke to former staffers who were working to change the rules around reporting and consequences. I spoke with Lisa before Congressman Swalwell announced he was leaving Congress. Here's our conversation.
LISA DESJARDINS: Hi there.
KELLY: Hi. So let's ground this by starting with the specifics - what we know, what we don't, how we know it - about the Swalwell case, this allegation - sexual misconduct. There were - there was reporting by the San Francisco Chronicle and other outlets. Just ground us in the facts here.
DESJARDINS: These are striking and very specific accusations. They are alarming. CNN and the San Francisco Chronicle together detailed accusations that they reported from four different women. The one that is the most serious is a woman who is unnamed, but which in both reports, they said they checked her story and checked that she had conveyed her story to people at the time. And she says that twice, Congressman Swalwell, once when she worked for him and once after, sexually assaulted her. Once, she says she was essentially unconscious, that they had been drinking beforehand. She didn't remember what happened. The other time she said she protested, she pushed back, and she is accusing him of rape.
The other accusations also run the gamut from inappropriate touching, but to include a lot of inappropriate texting, including of nude photos of the congressman, some over Snapchat. Now, the congressman has said, as you reported, that he is innocent, but he has acknowledged some wrongdoing in the past, and he apologized to his wife. He said initially he was going to fight this legally. His lawyers have put out two cease and desist letters to these women, but he has pulled back now from his race for governor.
KELLY: From the race from governor in California. You have covered Congress for years. How common is this story, like this one that we are hearing now about Eric Swalwell?
DESJARDINS: Well, this is an unusual moment in that we now have multiple documented reporting - cases reported by, you know, esteemed outlets that seem to have done a lot of homework here, not just Congressman Swalwell but Republican Texas congressman, of course, Tony Gonzales. In reporting about Congressman Gonzales and now Congressman Swalwell, I have found that digging beneath the surface, it seems like the problem has actually grown again.
KELLY: Has grown again?
DESJARDINS: Yes.
KELLY: That's just astonishing.
DESJARDINS: You know, I think what happened after 2018 is we saw a real acknowledging of problems in the halls of power, inequity of power, especially affecting female staffers, not only female staffers. And I think there was a real attempt to address it then. But then I think there has been taking for granted of the idea that this problem has been solved, and there - it seems to be there has been a growing problem again.
KELLY: That's fascinating. I mean, you're describing this culture of open secrets...
DESJARDINS: Yeah.
KELLY: ...That I think a lot of us hoped would be shrinking not growing in the years since the height of the #MeToo movement in 2018.
DESJARDINS: The 2018 #MeToo movement did change things in Congress. It rewrote the way that accusers, survivors could raise their cases. Before then, really, they had almost virtually no chance of seeing the light of day or even getting any kind of justice for their cause. It was really truly rigged against them. So that was changed, but now the system remains mired in red tape, to say the least. It is very slow. I've talked to staffers who don't trust it. And in fact, I spoke to one congresswoman, Marcy Kaptur, who said her staff does not trust the process. They believe that their accusations are not taken seriously. They're not sure they should raise them. And the system right now, the ethics system, there needs to be due process, but the due process really does sort of a lot of - there's a lot of critics who say it balances too much in favor of protecting the members, giving them sometimes years to answer accusations.
KELLY: You know, I wonder, too - obviously, reports of sexual misconduct have been documented all kinds of offices, you know, Harvey Weinstein and his case being central to the #MeToo movement in a very different industry. But I do wonder about the power structure and the specific power dynamics on Capitol Hill. And I guess I'm wondering, you nodded to turnover every two years in the House. But also, just that every member of Congress, they're in charge of the rules for their own office, right? Is there a comprehensive system on the Hill to address this?
DESJARDINS: There is to some degree, but there is no one that really has authority over each member of Congress except for themselves and the voters. So think of it as having basically in the House of Representatives, 435 separate little kingdoms, where the member of Congress really sets the rules for that office place. There is no one that is really forcing them to abide by other standards. There are House rules that they have agreed to abide by. But it is really ultimately the voters - and then to expel a member requires two-thirds power of each chamber. That is the only other lever that could affect a member's livelihood.
KELLY: There have been efforts. Most recently, I'm thinking just a month or so ago, Nancy Mace, Republican congresswoman of South Carolina, tried to pass a resolution that as I understand it would have forced the House Ethics Committee to make public all reports of allegations against congressional lawmakers, against congressional aides, allegations of sexual harassment, misconduct. That effort failed. Why?
DESJARDINS: Well, it was a complicated effort, actually. It did fail on the House floor. But immediately after that, Nancy Mace went into a committee, the Oversight Committee, and forced through a subpoena to subpoena those exact same records. Now, usually those subpoenas are dealt with rather promptly. They issue these subpoenas. It's a serious matter for a committee to subpoena something. But, you know, I've been texting that committee. They have not issued that subpoena, but Nancy Mace says she still wants that information. She still will release those names of members of Congress and staff who have - who settled for misconduct in the past. So it was voted down on the floor, but she did push it through committee.
KELLY: Lisa Desjardins of the PBS NewsHour - Lisa, thank you very much for sharing your reporting.
DESJARDINS: You're welcome.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
