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Capitol Talk: Week 1 brings a contentious start and familiar themes

The first week of the 2025 Legislature gets off to a contentious start. Gov. Gianforte invites Elon Musk to Montana. Legislative leaders plan to revive efforts to change the judiciary. Newly sworn-in Senator Tim Sheehy is wasting no time making a splash. Retiring Congressman Matt Rosendale makes a quiet exit.

Capitol Talk is MTPR's weekly legislative news and analysis program. MTPR's Sally Mauk is joined by Montana Free Press State Editor Holly Michels and Lee Banville, Director of the University of Montana School of Journalism and Professor of Political Reporting.

Sally Mauk: Holly, in recent legislative sessions, one of the most influential factors in what gets passed or not is a small group of conservative to moderate Republican legislators known as the 'Solutions Caucus'. They've already been making headlines in this first week of the session. Remind us of who and what they are. 

Holly Michels: Yes Sally, it is fair to say that things have not gotten off to a smooth start, or even really a start at all in the Senate this legislative session. And that is, like you said, in large part because of this group of more moderate Republicans. In past sessions, they've been called the 'Solutions Caucus'.

Right now, this dispute within the Republican Party in the Senate, there's a key group of nine senators that one state senator is calling the 'Nasty Nine' - so I'm wondering if you might have a new nickname for them this session.

Generally, the 'Solutions Caucus' has been moderate Republicans who have crossed the aisle to work with Democrats to pass key legislation. In the past, we've looked at Medicaid expansion as a pretty big example of that.

This year, those nine, on the very first day of the session, through this pretty wonky rule process, joined with Democrats to show a flex of some power by getting rid of a legislative committee that Republican lawmakers described as kind of a parking area for senators seen as problematic to the more conservative faction's causes this session. Those five Republicans, who are on that committee, are all in pretty interesting positions this session. One is Jason Ellsworth. He was Senate president last session and lost his bid to keep that job this time around to Matt Regier, who's now at the helm of the Senate, trying to manage the situation and bring some cohesion back to the Republican caucus. And then the rest of the lawmakers have things like — some of them have an alignment with the governor's office, like they were endorsed by Gianforte over generally farther right candidates in the primaries last June, or they've been identified in the past as part of that 'Solutions Caucus' and they've done things like side with Democrats, like I said before, to pass Medicaid expansion.

So those five on the committee plus four others teamed up, surprised Regier on the first day and now we've seen this standoff in the Senate with this group of Republicans joining with Democrats. That's really ground the Senate's work to a halt. They're not really having committee meetings with bill hearings. That's something we're normally fully into at this point of the session, and is happening over on the House side. This happened on day one.

Again, on the fourth day of the Legislature the Senate actually came back in for a late floor session vote at 6 p.m. It was a vote they took Regier was hoping would signal some unity within the Republican caucus. But again, those nine Republicans held strong with Democrats. So as of this recording, the Senate's at a bit of a standstill. We're seeing this faction show some muscle along with Democrats. And I think this will be really interesting to watch as we have some pretty major policies up this session, like, again, the reauthorization of Medicaid expansion. So it's going to be an interesting dynamic. 

Sally Mauk: That's for sure. Lee, Democrats have more seats in this 2025 Legislature than they had the last session, but they're still the minority. So, as Holly pointed out, it's crucial for parts of their agenda that they find some Republican allies — these, "Nasty Nine." 

Lee Banville: It's necessary they find any Republicans to have any of their agenda. Democrats remain a — while bigger — still a very clear minority. What we're also learning is that when we look at national politics, it really becomes Republicans are one thing, Democrats are another thing. But when we really get down to it, being a Republican, being a Democrat, doesn’t mean you all agree on everything, right? And we saw that last session where we we thought there were going to be all of these constitutional amendments that were going to come through because there was a supermajority and every single one of them failed because they couldn't quite keep the Republican coalition fully together. What's interesting is, with the redistricting and the growth of the Democratic minority, we actually have seen the reemergence of the 'Solutions Caucus', the 'Nasty Nine' — you know, I'm sure there'll be several nicknames by the end of the session — that really change that dynamic because, you know, last time it really was, can the Republicans keep the super majority to function and do the bigger things? This time it's going to be can the Republicans keep the majority to pass the legislation and keep the coalition together and do what the governor and the legislative leaders want to do? 

Sally Mauk: This is for sure going to be one of the more fascinating things to watch in this session. Holly, in his swearing in speech, Governor Gianforte couldn't help but gloat about the current Republican dominance in Montana politics. For the first time in decades, Republicans hold all the top state and federal offices. And here's what he said about that: 

Governor Greg Gianforte: 'This conservative vision centered on family and community and our way of life will continue to guide us.' 

Sally Mauk: And his phrase, 'Our way of life' is a recurring theme in the governor's messaging, Holly. 

Holly Michels: Yeah, it is. Going back to what you're saying about the swearing in, it was a really big ceremony that kind of struck me. You know, a lot of pomp and circumstance, lots of flags, big set up on the Capitol steps. And that sort of hit me just how major that contrast was between when Gianforte was sworn in during the pre-vaccine days of the COVID pandemic to his first term. And, of course, like you said, he's pointing out that Republicans had a really good election in 2024 that came after, you know, four years ago — 2020 was a really strong showing for them. Like you said, they now hold all the statewide offices, including federal. They took out Jon Tester, which was kind of the last Democrat standing statewide in Montana. Of course, that runs alongside strong majorities in the state Legislature.

Like you said, in his speech, Gianforte took a little bit of a victory lap. He won reelection with nearly 59% of the vote, which he's saying is a mandate from voters to go after Republican policies. And like we heard him say (his vision is) centered on family, community, like we hear over and over this 'Montana way of life'. He talked about the state recovering economically since COVID. He also gave a nod to the judiciary, which is again, on the side of Republican lawmakers this session.

We're also expecting Gianforte, like he did in his first two terms, to focus on tax cuts. I think we're going to see a specific focus on property taxes. That is something that both parties identify as a priority, though I think there's significant division in how Republicans want to address that compared to Democrats.

Gianforte did give a hat tip to the idea of bipartisanship in his speech. And I'm curious to see how that looks given like we just talked about, you know, the really strong status of the Republican Party in Montana. But this is going to be interesting to watch. Gianforte has just won his second term as governor, so he's not going to be running for governor again. So any changes that might bring to how he approaches the legislature goes through this session will be sure to be interesting to watch unfold. 

Sally Mauk: I think it will be interesting to see how much bolder he might feel in this second term. Well, meanwhile, Lee, Gianforte has invited Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy to Montana. They are, of course, the co-chairs of the new federal Department of Government Efficiency. And the governor wants to 'share Montana's experience with them'. 

Lee Banville: Well, I'm sure he does, because as Holly was just saying, I mean, he's not running for reelection. So, one of the things that will be fascinating to watch over the next — at least for political nerds — several months during the session is, what does Greg Gianforte see on his horizon? And one way you do that is to raise your national profile. Although there are some efficiency efforts that the governor has undertaken, and maybe he's really just trying to talk about how do you make unwieldy government organizations more efficient, this also could be the first step of like, 'Hey, let's look at the Montana effort, the Montana way of life''. I see this as 'what's next'? Because, yes, he he probably wants to champion the idea of smaller government. He's always been for that, for pro-business policies and for government efficiency. But this appears to be a way to also sort of say like, 'well, I want to be a national champion of government efficiency, and I might be the national model of how to make government more efficient', which is an interesting conversation to have if we're thinking about, 'well, what might Greg Gianforte do in four years?' But he might just be like, 'Hey, now let's talk about how government can be more efficient.' 

Sally Mauk: We don't know if Musk and Ramaswamy are going to accept his invitation, of course. We'll wait and see about that. 

Lee Banville: But it will be interesting to see if that happens, too, right? 

Sally Mauk: Well, Holly, one of the hallmarks of the last legislative session and its wake has been Republican leadership's fight with the judicial branch. And that fight looks to be continued in this session with a bunch of proposed bills aimed at 'judicial reform'. 

Holly Michels: A bunch is right, Sally. A special Senate committee met over the interim and it developed 27 bills that all aim to change the judicial branch. And I think we'll see how many of those actually go through the full process. But they do have a pretty big slate to work from. All this stems from a years long focus Republicans in the Legislature have had on the judiciary. And that came after Republicans objected to several actions the court took, including how the Court has handled its own records, specifically emails, as well as several rulings that have overturned Republican backed laws.

Among the biggest proposals this year are those to make judicial elections partisan. That's been floated before, but Republicans are saying that this session they have the traction to get that across the finish line.

Another idea they have would allow political parties to donate to judicial candidates.

There's another that would create a new court specifically focused on business and constitutional cases.

There's proposals to set up systems to evaluate judges. Also look at the process for reviewing judges and disciplining them.

One of the bills would open up Supreme Court deliberations to the public.

Another would create a judicial performance evaluation commission. That's among, like I said, a lot more things moving.

So I'll be staying tuned to this pretty closely. I think it's going to be a pretty major theme of this legislative session to see where these bills end up. 

Sally Mauk: Lee, House Speaker Brandon Ler and Senate President Matt Regier, they have a podcast called the Montana Majority Report. And here is part of what they had to say about the judiciary in a recent show. 

Regier first, followed by Ler: What frustrates me is when the experts, the judicial experts say, well, it's an independent branch of government and it is not in our Montana Constitution in Article 7 that controls the judicial branch, outlines a judicial branch 22 different times. It says 'Legislature' or 'by law'. So, we have a constitutional duty for oversight. Is a check and balance there between the three branches (Ler) Absolutely, and they've been running roughshod over all over it for quite a while now. And I think now is the time we need to start reining them in. 

Sally Mauk: Lee, they want to rein them in. 

Lee Banville: Well, they've been talking about it for a while. That's true. The battle over the judiciary is one that has been playing out for multiple sessions, at this point. There's an innate frustration where the Legislature and now with the governorship in Republican hands, they pass what they want to pass most of the time. And then it goes through judicial review. And the problem is that with the Montana state Constitution interpreting it, oftentimes bills that are being passed by the Legislature, courts are saying, run afoul of the Constitution. There are two ways you fix that. One is you revamp the judiciary to make them interpret the Constitution differently. And the other is you change the Constitution. They try to change the Constitution last time, that didn't work. They talked about judicial reform last time, but they didn't really have nearly as much of an organized effort as they do this time. And so, we really will see sort of this battle play out because it is the one thing that is hanging up some of the more conservative policies of the governor, and in particular, the Legislature wants to push forward. 

Sally Mauk: And they do have a new chief justice of the state Supreme Court, Corey Swanson, whose history suggests he would be very conservative in his rulings. So do they see him as an ally, do you think? 

Lee Banville: I'm sure they do. But I'm always very cautious when thinking about justices because your history does not predict what you're going to do, right? If we look at, say, Justice Laurie McKinnon, she is a fairly Conservative justice, but she reads the Constitution conservatively, says this is what it says and has written some of the most aggressively pro-open government decisions because the Constitution says Montana has the right to know. Jim Rice was a Republican who ran against then Attorney General Mike McGrath. And so being Conservative doesn't equal voting the way the Legislature wants you to. And so, I think we'll have to wait and see what the Supreme Court actually does as it starts to tackle some of these issues under Chief Justice Swanson's sort of, I guess, a different spelling of reign, not rein in, but reign. 

Sally Mauk: It's also, I think, worth noting that when they were proposing some of these bills, the Legislature's own legal counsel tells them this is not going to withstand Constitutional scrutiny and they kind of go ahead and pass them anyway. 

Lee Banville: Sometimes they do it to make a point, right? They pass a bill because they believe in the bill, and they know it's not going to survive. But they still are like, 'I believe in this bill. And so, I feel like I got to say that I voted for it'. You know, 'I've fought for limits on abortion access' or, you know, fill in the blank — protecting gun rights on campuses, whatever you want to say. Sometimes you want to be able to go back to your constituents and say, 'I voted for it even though it got shot down in the courts'. So, I mean, yes, you're right. Oftentimes these get reviewed, and they say it's not going to fly and they pass it anyway. 

Sally Mauk: Holly, what's the mood over there this first week? I mean, it seems to me that it's starting off with a heck of a lot of controversy, especially within the Republican caucus. Are people feeling like, 'Yay we're back and we're going to get down to work'? Or are they feeling like, 'Boy, this is going to be a humdinger of a session'? 

Holly Michels: I think it depends on which legislator you ask and at what time of day you catch them right now. But I think on the House side, they're kind of feeling like they're doing good. You know, they're generally seen as the lower chamber, but, you know, they're humming along right now and getting business done.

In the Senate. I think there's some frustration and I think that crosses party lines. Those caucuses we were talking about earlier, I think no matter which one you're in, you're probably a little frustrated that the Senate hasn't heard really any bills yet. Normally, that's a big you know, 'we're in full swing right now'. And that delay is going to probably come back and be a little bit of a problem. We've seen the Legislature, since I've been here since 2017, take up more and more bills each time. And I've heard leadership, both the House and Senate, Republican and Democrat, say this year, 'we feel like we're kind of at capacity and we can't really take on any more work than what's before us right now unless we were to have a longer session, go to full time', that sort of thing. But that's problem because we've only got 90 days. And if we spend these first five not really doing any work that might push us later into April, end of April or early May. And legislators want to go home then. A lot of them have farms and ranches they need to get back to, full time jobs that they have leave from that they need to get back to. So, I think any sort of delay, especially in that go-home date, just causes some consternation. Hopefully we'll get up in full swing here and get going. But yeah, it's an interesting start to the session, it's not one that I've seen in my time up here. Interesting to see kind of how this plays out over the full 90 days. 

Sally Mauk: Lastly, Lee, our new U.S. senator, Tim Sheehy, has been busy co-sponsoring a bill to deport illegal immigrants accused, not convicted, but accused of theft. And he's been appearing a lot on national television. I've seen him on Fox, of course, but also on CNN talking about wildfires. I'm seeing Tim Sheehy a lot out there. 

Lee Banville: Yeah, he definitely has not taken the sort of quiet first steps of being a U.S. senator. He's really making his presence known. And I guess this is more of an appearance thing - he's actually done quite well in those interviews. He's pretty smooth. And so, I think you'll probably see him a fair amount as both news issues come up that are relevant that he can talk about, but also as political fights start to cook up. It'll be interesting to see, you know, does he kind of maintain that high profile and does he become a mover and shaker in the newly reorganized Senate? As it comes under the leadership of Senator John Thune. Will Sheehy becomes sort of a rising star. I mean, you know, it's way too early to tell - it's a week in, but his media appearances and his ability to be pretty effective in those media appearances will make it a kind of an interesting thing to watch. 

Sally Mauk: Right. Well, I think he's comfortable in the spotlight, we could easily say. Meanwhile, Congressman Matt Rosendale's tenure ended not with a bang, but a whimper, I would say. He didn't give a farewell speech. He hasn't really been making any sort of news. He just went away. 

Lee Banville: Yeah, he just rode off into the sunset, into his Montana way of life. I think that what we see is, Rosendale had a really bumpy last several months. He launched a Senate campaign and then a week later ended a Senate campaign, then launched a House campaign, then ended a House campaign. It seems like there's a lot of frustration from Matt Rosendale about the way he's been treated. And it's just like he's just done, and he just wants to return to his life back here. I mean, that's certainly what he has said. But it is notable because he was so public and a lot of his actions, especially during the sort of intra-Republican fighting around the House speaker, and he was an outspoken person on issues like Ukraine and the border. And then, like you said, not a bang, but a whimper. It's notable that I think it may be understandable given how bumpy that last eight months of his run in the U.S. House was. 

Sally Mauk: Well, the 2025 Legislature and Congress are off and running, and so are we. And Holly and Lee, thank you. And I'll talk to you next week.

Capitol Talk is MTPR's weekly legislative news and analysis program. MTPR's Sally Mauk is joined by Montana Free Press State Editor Holly Michels and Lee Banville, Director of the University of Montana School of Journalism and Professor of Political Reporting.

Tune in during the legislative session online Friday afternoons and on-air Saturdays at 9:44 a.m. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

Retired in 2014 but still a presence at MTPR, Sally Mauk is a University of Kansas graduate and former wilderness ranger who has reported on everything from the Legislature to forest fires.
Holly Michels
Montana Free Press State Editor Holly Michels appears on MTPR's political analysis programs 'Campaign Beat' and 'Capitol Talk'.
Lee Banville
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